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Message started by Adrienne_Ray on May 26th, 2010, 3:04pm

Title: Does God still exist if we find life on other planets?
Post by Adrienne_Ray on May 26th, 2010, 3:04pm

I don't want to start  any fights but I would welcome an intellectual discussion about this subject.
I've been watching the History channel (So, of course the subject has nothing to do with history) and they have been discussing the possibilty of life on other planets.
They keep saying 'If it turns out there really is life on other planets, that will prove all the great religions are wrong.'
Because I can't call the history channel and discuss this, I chose to bring this discussion here. If I could call the History channel I would ask them, 'What do Modern Marvels, Ice Road Truckers and Loggers have to do with history?' But I can't so I will continue on.
If there is life on other planets (And I believe there must be) I don't see how that negates the existence of God. Surely if He made one planet with life, He could make more. I once read a story where an alien asked a human where he came from. The man replied, 'I came from the planet that Jesus Christ saved.' The alien said, "He's been to all of them."
Even if an alien showed up and said, 'That whole thing about Adam and Eve, we made that up. Fooled ya!' it would not shake my faith because sometimes aliens lie. In fact some people have suggested that the 'aliens' that have visited this planet may have been demons trying to confuse us about the existence of God.
So, what do you think? Should I throw a bottle of tea at the tv when they tell me I can't believe in God and Aliens? And why doesn't the history channel ever have any history on it?

Title: Re: Does God still exist if we find life on other planets?
Post by ArthurS on May 27th, 2010, 2:10am

Hey Adrienne,

I don't believe you'll ever solve the problem of why the History Channel never shows any history. That may be beyond mortal people.

As for the question of aliens on other worlds proving that there is no God, I don't buy that. There is no logical reason that finding alien life proves there is no God. If anything, it proves that God (whichever brand you believe in) is greater than we thought.

I also don't buy that aliens are really demons or that the devil put dinosaur bones in the earth to confuse us about the age of the world. That's giving a LOT of credit to the devil and hardly any to God. I find that when people argue that things aren't possible its because that thing doesn't fit THEIR understanding of God. They are simply arguing that God has limitations. And if you say you believe in a Supreme Being, a Divine Intellect, a Creator of All Things, then how can you believe that Being is limited by our meager understanding of the universe?

I think that when we meet aliens, with whom we can converse, we'll find that they'll have their own version of God. They won't be Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Jews, or anything else. They will be a new flavor of worship with a new take on the Supreme Being. And again, we'll be confronted by the realization that God is greater than what our meager minds can conceive (or define).

Hope I didn't tick too many of you off. Just my opinion.

Title: Re: Does God still exist if we find life on other planets?
Post by Webbie on Aug 14th, 2010, 1:01am

Um, yes.

Title: Re: Does God still exist if we find life on other planets?
Post by Readlorey on Aug 17th, 2010, 2:15am

Yes, the gods still exist. always.

Title: Re: Does God still exist if we find life on other planets?
Post by Gary A. Markette on Sep 3rd, 2010, 10:39am

I'm not sure there's any further question about the existence of God. Quantum theory and other scientific advances almost guarantee the existence of a higher power. The question isn't about God's existence, it's about God's nature. Recently, Steven Hawking caused a flap by stating that one did not have to believe in God to believe in the Big Bang. His statement was something like the Big Bang could have happened with or without God. His problem is not with God's existence, it seems, but with the concept of a personal God--a God who knows "when every sparrow falls." Well, Hawking's awfully smart, but his beliefs or lack thereof are worth exactly as much as those of any other person trying to understand the nature of the Divine. (By the way: want an example of bad technical writing? Read Hawking's A Brief History of Time.)

God is unknowable, ineffable, unfathomable, and deliberately so. An infinite being, defining God limits God and thus makes God less limitless. This denies the godhead and leads to the ultimate religious paradox. In fact, all that we can say of God is that God exists. Beyond that, we are helpless to define or understand.

My 2 cents. Shannah Tovah, my dears.

Title: Re: Does God still exist if we find life on other planets?
Post by Webbie on Sep 5th, 2010, 7:59am


Gary A. Markette wrote on Sep 3rd, 2010, 10:39am:
I'm not sure there's any further question about the existence of God. Quantum theory and other scientific advances almost guarantee the existence of a higher power. The question isn't about God's existence, it's about God's nature. Recently, Steven Hawking caused a flap by stating that one did not have to believe in God to believe in the Big Bang. His statement was something like the Big Bang could have happened with or without God. His problem is not with God's existence, it seems, but with the concept of a personal God--a God who knows "when every sparrow falls." Well, Hawking's awfully smart, but his beliefs or lack thereof are worth exactly as much as those of any other person trying to understand the nature of the Divine. (By the way: want an example of bad technical writing? Read Hawking's A Brief History of Time.)

God is unknowable, ineffable, unfathomable, and deliberately so. An infinite being, defining God limits God and thus makes God less limitless. This denies the godhead and leads to the ultimate religious paradox. In fact, all that we can say of God is that God exists. Beyond that, we are helpless to define or understand.

My 2 cents. Shannah Tovah, my dears.



Well said.

Is it any wonder that the CERN labs are looking for the "God" particle?

Hmm...

Title: Re: Does God still exist if we find life on other planets?
Post by balero on Mar 9th, 2012, 8:04am

The God particle found proves that the universe can create itself without any help of any other source.

the particle is the all important one that can attract matter floating around it and bind itself into lumps like planets.  You dont then need a creator.

Balero

Title: Re: Does God still exist if we find life on other planets?
Post by Webbie on Mar 9th, 2012, 1:34pm


Quote:
The God particle found proves that the universe can create itself without any help of any other source.

the particle is the all important one that can attract matter floating around it and bind itself into lumps like planets.  You dont then need a creator.

Balero


I wasn't aware that it had been found quite yet. Last I heard "they" are still trying to narrow it down a bit. Hmm... where did I see that article....
http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/03/07/scientists-inch-closer-to-proving-existence-of-higgs-boson-the-god-particle/

Of course even if they do find it, the next step of the argument would be to say God made it and start the whole debate all over again. :)

Title: Re: Does God still exist if we find life on other planets?
Post by Ante up on Mar 9th, 2012, 8:08pm

Sorry, I haven’t figured out the quote thing yet.

Per Adrienne Ray and Arthur S. As to why the history channel doesn't have any history on it...I think they feel it’s old hat and they just want something new.   ;)

Per Arthur S. As to aliens having a different flavor of worship with a new take on the Supreme Being, I would agree. It would be odd indeed if they didn’t considering the many different flavors we have just among our own species on this one planet.

I wonder if anyone has ever heard of an abduction/close encounter case where there was a discussion (verbal or telepathic) about religion. I’d think that would be the second question after, “Where do you come from?” or from an abducted English major, “From where do you come?” :)(Hum, maybe there’s a story in there somewhere.)

Title: Re: Does God still exist if we find life on other planets?
Post by Webbie on Mar 10th, 2012, 9:04am


Quote:
Sorry, I haven’t figured out the quote thing yet.

The little icon of a paper with a blue arrow


Quote:
I wonder if anyone has ever heard of an abduction/close encounter case where there was a discussion (verbal or telepathic) about religion. I’d think that would be the second question after, “Where do you come from?” or from an abducted English major, “From where do you come?” Smiley(Hum, maybe there’s a story in there somewhere.)


I think your right.

Title: Re: Does God still exist if we find life on other planets?
Post by Jeangoldstrom on Mar 10th, 2012, 8:32pm

Or, as we would say in Pittsburgh, "Yinz ain't from around here, are yinz?"

Title: Re: Does God still exist if we find life on other planets?
Post by Webbie on Mar 15th, 2012, 12:46pm


Jeangoldstrom wrote on Mar 10th, 2012, 8:32pm:
Or, as we would say in Pittsburgh, "Yinz ain't from around here, are yinz?"


LOL!

Title: Re: Does God still exist if we find life on other planets?
Post by Inner Prop on Apr 5th, 2013, 12:27pm

I don't know why the History Channel never has history either.  I yell at it all the time and then turn off, "American Pickers," or "Pawn Stars."

I'm a Deist, so this is just fine and dandy with us.  I think what they mean is that the most prominent religions claim that GOD made us specially, or uniquely.  If that is so then where would aliens come from?

I really don't think those major religions are going to take more than a moment's pause before they regroup and recover from news of aliens.  I'm absolutely sure they won't close shop.

There is an argument that if we are the only intelligent life to ever arise in this universe, as vast and as old as it is and will be, then it is a complete waste.  Additionally, if we are alone then we an anomoly, a insignificant outlier on the chart that has no real bearing on the universe and should be completely discounted as statistically irrelevant.

If we are alone, then we aren't special, we're a mistake.  If we aren't alone then we aren't special, there are lots of us.

I say we ARE special and either finding shows that.

Title: Re: Does God still exist if we find life on other planets?
Post by Webbie on Apr 5th, 2013, 6:20pm


Quote:
I really don't think those major religions are going to take more than a moment's pause before they regroup and recover from news of aliens.  I'm absolutely sure they won't close shop.


I do think you're right here. Although I can't decide if I'm more cynical or sarcastic as I say it.

I heard a fella argue that all religions are not religious. That a "True" Religion" is a personal relationship with God. Therefore does not need a church etc etc..

Hmm, that might make an interesting story. Aliens arrive and they are missionaries trying to enlighten the barbarians.

Or they arrive and convert to (Insert religion or cult of your choice)

Perhaps they would start an Inquisition or a Crusade.


Title: Re: Does God still exist if we find life on other planets?
Post by Gary A. Markette on Apr 8th, 2013, 5:06am

"Perhaps they would start an Inquisition or a Crusade."

Please, neither, we Jews have had enough of both. I've heard many atheists deny the existence of G_d. When I engage them on it I find, more often than not, that their problem isn't with G_d but with some facet of organized religion. Dogma, practice, theology, catechism, all of these things derive from man's weak perception of the nature of the deity. Such perception can (and does) lead to excesses that many find discouraging at best and abhorent at worst. Those most put off cut the Gordian knot and deny the deity manifest rather than face the failings of man-established organizations. Admittedly, some out there actually do deny G_d for "scientific" reasons. This shows a touching faith in science that is, nonetheless, faith. When you come right down to it, it probably doesn't matter if you believe in G_d; G_d believes in you.

Title: Re: Does God still exist if we find life on other planets?
Post by balero on Apr 15th, 2013, 10:18am

From the beginnings of prehistoric mankind, the sun-worshippers right up until present day.  A god-head hs been a necessity allbeit an unproven fact either way.
    Sacrifice of oneself emerged amongst the primitives as they gave their lives fighting in a group against giant carnivores bu this was instinctive, the smart thing to do.
    Now in advanced society where thinking reigns, sacrifice in all forms is rife, whreby folk think of others, organ donate or the Audie Murphy medal, they had a choice.  All these actions seem to point to events that happene in Israel 2,000 years ago.
    Admittedly, we have agnostics (guys sitting on the fence of belief, also Christian deist's churchgoers who believe that God has no power over events hppening on earth e.g. The Holocaust.
     

Title: Re: Does God still exist if we find life on other planets?
Post by Webbie on Aug 11th, 2013, 10:40am

Did a little digging and found this which without doubt means something I'm just not sure what.

John 10:16 (Quoting Jesus)

Parallel Verses
New International Version
I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.

New Living Translation
I have other sheep, too, that are not in this sheepfold. I must bring them also. They will listen to my voice, and there will be one flock with one shepherd.

English Standard Version
And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.

New American Standard Bible
"I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd.

King James Bible
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.



So does that prove that there are aliens? I'm thinking no it doesn't. On the other hand it doesn't prove there couldn't be either.

Oh sure, back to square one.


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